6. Unbecoming Religion to Find God

Hello you beautiful badass! 

Read the Bible or go to hell
Go to confession or go to hell
Believe what we believe and don't you dare ask questions....or go to hell

^^^any of that sound familiar?  I know it does to me and my amazing guest on this episode. 

Join Lauren Thew, my Shamanic Mentor and Shadow Work Expert, and myself as we discuss our relationship with organized religion and how it pushed us to learn more. And, unlearn even MORE! 

How to learn more about Lauren and her amazing work:
Instagram: @Lauren.Thew
linktr.ee/lauren.thew

With love,
Jess

Transcript

Unknown: 0:03

Hey everyone, thanks so much and welcome back to consciously unbecoming the podcast where we dig deep into all of the bullshit beliefs that society, religion, culture, our family, have imposed upon us. And we didn't really get to choose those beliefs. And it's all about looking into that shit relearning it and picking which ones we need to keep keep with ourselves or kick to the curb. I am really freaking excited. I have an amazing guest joining me today. Just to give you a little background information on Miss Lauren foo. She is a shamanic mentor, teacher, Shadow worker. Please talk about more with that. But what I love about her and how I met her, was actually divine intervention. And we'll talk about that a little bit later. But she is one of those humans that knows how to see the good and a lot of different situations and can really bring out our best, most enlightened highest selves. I know that she has been doing that for me, and I'm just so grateful. So give it up. Lauren Sue. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so so excited to be here. Yeah, so I've been practicing shamanism for over five years now. And when I was going through my shamanic training, I was also going to school for psychology, because I wanted to become a therapist, or I thought I wanted to become a therapist. So going through those kind of trainings at the same time, and realizing that they were the same thing just spoken in the different languages that we use. In those worlds, it really helped me realize that I loved and needed a ton of shadow work. And that was actually what everyone needed, in a way in order to become free of their own baggage. You know, like, for me, it came in the form of my awakening, you would say you would call it came in the form of me being medically discharged from the military thinking that that was gonna be the thing that I did for the rest of my life. And then having it taken away from me, or, or I thought it was being taken away from me. And it is what I had formed all of my identity on. And so a big shadow came up for me as I was going through that life transition process of like, Well, who am I then where does my worth come from? What do I have to offer the world, and I didn't have I didn't have those answers around me. So that's kind of what got me into shamanism and into psychology was figuring out like, what was going on within me, I was diagnosed with complex post traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, depression, insomnia. And then I had a list of other physical issues that had come up from the military injuries, etc. So I kind of just dove in all the way into psychology and shamanism, which is where I started forming my own idea of in the kind of style of the shadow work that I teach my students of this mixture of psychology, and spirituality, of understanding that we all have a shadow aspect. And if you are not aware of it and not working with it, it's in control of you, in some aspect of your life or some aspect of your life, you are acting out of the shadow. And when you start working with that you, for me, anyways, I find that you need to have a holistic approach. You can't just go at it in the spiritual, you can't just go at it in the mental, you have to come at it all the way as a whole person, you know, addressing all of those aspects of yourself. So that's how I got into shamanism. That's how I got into becoming a Shadow Work Expert. And then last year, was a big pivotable. Pivotal, Pivotal, there we go. pivotal year for me, in that I had another awakening where I was in a business with someone that it just wasn't aligning. It wasn't what I was meant to be doing. I wasn't actually living in my purpose. It was organic. It was it was this it was that it was helping all these other people. It was making money, but it wasn't what I'm here to do. So I finally gave myself permission on Christmas Day 2020 to release it all. And to start over and I was really called and I knew in my heart it was just like this, you know that deep inner knowing Deep call to start teaching shadow work and really focusing on it. So I created the Shadow Work class, which I taught for the last year. Which just like busted it open for me and really kind of helped me formulate the way that I teach in the way that I've found works for a lot of people doing Shadow Work, discovering what your shadow is, where it lies, where it came from. And then with homework with tools, integrate that in so that you can discover the, the golden shadow, the gifts that come from those parts of ourselves, that we have denied or overlooked or projected on to other people. Yeah, so often think that the shadow is just all the shit that you don't want to deal with. And that is really painful. But also lurking in the shadows aren't there those talents and the skills that you just don't know that you're capable of? Because they're shoved down below a bunch of other garbage? So Right. I love that. And I what you were mentioning earlier, just about the shamanism and how it all weaves together, is when I say that I study shamanism learning it and I'm really into it people look at me like okay, cuckoo bird. This is some new age bullshit. Like no, it's been, it's predated so many things that we know about today. And what I love about it, it's really working in the four different bodies that we have that you know, the spiritual, the spiritual, what's next and spiritual, mental, emotional, emotional, physical. There we go. Nobody, just remember it. Oh, that's I like that. What are you a teacher? What are your teachers, I think what's neat is how interchangeably we can go up and down in those, and how really there is this harmonious aspect to ourselves when all of those are balanced. And so that's really one of the ways that I describe shamanism, but then also just the the basis of nature and tradition and all of that. So I'm excited to chat about that. But really, what I wanted to focus on today is just about that the differences, I see differences between spirituality and religion, and just that dogmatic perspective, because that has been a huge, ongoing fundamental thing in my life for a very long time is unbecoming what I have learned about religion. So I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic school for nine years. And we had the worst uniforms. They were so uncomfortable. Shirts, were literally like urine colored yellow. Wow. Yeah, yeah. And so I went there for nine years, and I come from a family that did not have a lot of means. So the fact that I was sent to this Catholic school, and my parents could barely, you know, keep the lights on literally, was just, I just don't even understand it. But it did give me a good foundation, into religion into spirituality. And I began my relationship with God. So we don't, don't discount that I don't discredit that experience. I just realized as I got older, and even when I was younger, and not even realizing it, that it didn't fit my perspective of God. It felt like, it felt like we were trying to own God. And it felt like there was too much ego involved. And I remember talking to my dad, who he laid in bed with me at night. And you know, we told stories, and I remember asking him, I don't understand. What about the people in the middle of the jungles that have never been exposed to Jesus? Are they just going to go to hell, and he essentially told me what n times and this is based on his own lens of how he was raised. He said, based on the end times, essentially everybody will have access to Jesus. Well, now I know that's not true. They'll have access to God. Different and so I remember being really bothered by that, because the God that I was learning about kind of seemed like a jerk. perspective, I'm like, why would this God who Why would he be such a jerk like that? And then the the issues with the lack of inclusion for LGBTQ plus members of those communities, and just that stuff really bothered me. And I remember, I remember bringing this up in religion class and my teacher sent me to the principal's office, but I said, Noah's Ark. Okay, so we think the whole world flooded, right? But they didn't really have a fundamental understanding of what the whole world was. So was it just Mesopotamia that flooded? Or was it the whole world? And she told me, I asked too many questions. Oh, no, cuz she didn't have the answer to it. And that threatens her beliefs. So her shadow was like that. Yeah, exactly. And so somehow that was then projected on me that I was a bad Catholic goes bad Christian. And then all of these things started culminating. And I remember in college, I decided, hey, I'm going to go to this nondenominational church, my dad and I started going every Wednesday we eat our eat soup at Panera and then go to church. It was our thing. And things just started slowly expanding for me and my understanding of religion and God and spirituality. So really want to talk about that. And you guys, what's your what's your kind of origin story of how you believe what you believe today? That's a very broad question. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's good. Um, so I was raised in a household that first, when I was first born, it wasn't to religious I don't think they were going to church or anything like that. But it became a very religious household. After my parents split up. My my stepmother was very religious, my dad is very religious, but he's also on again, off again, recovering addict, alcoholic, and just generally has a lot of healing, has a lot of trauma, and, and was raised in a religion rivaIry religious household. And so that's kind of taken over him, his his human in this life, and I'm able to see that now. But so I was raised in a kind of really chaotic situation, where my dad was using drugs, and then coming home and beating my mom. And then, you know, my mom was emotionally unstable, you know, in that relationship, doing the best that she could, you know, with two kids trying to stay in a marriage that was, you know, really difficult. And when they split up it, I think it was even harder for her. She didn't know how to cope. My dad remarried two weeks after the divorce was final. And I was like six or seven when this happen. And I really feel like that was a big pivotable pivotal man, I don't know what's up with that word today. Pivotal, I think hitter. point for me. Pivotal, and pivotal, I feel like are very interchangeable. Yeah, yeah. It felt like a big change in my life. And things really started shifting for me. And I remember as a kid kind of feeling hopeless, but going to church every Sunday, going to church every Wednesday being taught a lot of these are fundamental, fundamentalist Christian, so they believe every word in the Bible is true. It's not a metaphor. They don't believe in dinosaurs, because the Earth has not been around long enough for them to have existed. They basically go by the list in at Genesis or Exodus that has the name of all of the families. And that's how long they base that the world has been here for. Wow. But I realize now yeah, I realized now as my, my lens has expanded that, well, we'll talk about that when we get into the other religions, but I, my understanding of them has really expanded and I have a lot more compassion for them. But they're really stuck in it from their only perspective, and they're afraid to look at it from any other angle, because that means you're going to hell, you know, so, I had that awakening that almost like, remembering that I was not cool with what we were learning as well, as a child that just didn't make sense to me. God seemed very, very much like a dude, very much like a man who was pissed, right? So yeah, and I tell this story in our Muna key, the initiation rites that I teach into our lineage of shamanism, that, you know, religion is like a viewpoint out of the box that we're in as a human being. So when we're born, we're all born into this box of what we can perceive. And as we learn religion, we get holes poked into this box where we can see a different perspective of what God creator the universe source is, right? So religion is just one perspective of God, but then it has all of these layers of cultural projection onto their own personal beliefs, their own cultural norms at that time, and my soul, my spirit, as a child, as a young child, I just knew it didn't align with me, but I knew there was a God like that, that I believed in, but so I was like, probably a bad Christian. You know, my whole life, I went to church, but then when I was an adult, I didn't go but I still call myself a Christian. Because if I didn't, I was gonna go to hell. So it was basically like all fear based. And then when I was getting out of the military, and I was really like questioning a lot of things in my life. I remember, literally remember I was driving down this road that I live right by now. And thinking I'm afraid to question what God is or if the God of the Bible is real, because I don't want to go to hell. How crazy is that? Like just realizing that I was afraid to question the beliefs that I had. And so that got me thinking and it got me a little bit more open to what spiritually was for for a little while there. I rejected anything. So I didn't believe in angels. I knew that there was a God, but it just wasn't the one in the Bible. But I wasn't. I wasn't sure what was true and wasn't what wasn't true. So like an angry kid, I just rejected it all. And then I had this, this big awakening experience where I met Archangel Michael in a very physical way, which is a whole other story for whole the day but I had physics, physical experience with an angel. That was a shamanic journey that I didn't know was a shamanic journey. I thought it was a guided journey to meet your spirit guide. But yeah, so he showed up. And so it challenged my beliefs one more time, like, oh my god, okay, if angels are real, then what else? What else? What else? So? And that's where I started kind of digging. But yes, so religions, I what my take on is, in religions is, like I said, we all have these different perspectives, these different holes in the box. And with shamanism, we take out the middleman, but what you'll notice is that almost all religions have an underlying theme. Right. And then what you can do, if you look at it objectively is you can start to see culturally where they implanted new names or new versions that fit what they understood. And so to me, those are, like I said, those different holes throughout the box. But when you get into shamanism, we begin to remove the middle people between you and your relationship with spirit. And so that is what kind of opened me up to what God what creator, whatever label you want to put on, it actually is. And I get a lot of hate from that, from my parents from those who are really afraid to look at what they believe in about kind of my take on God or spirit. But I've had enough experiences myself personally, interacting with it, that I know it's not going to punish me because of who I love. I know it's not going to punish me because I'm not perfect. Every time I meet with source, it's all encompassing love and acceptance, and telling me that I literally can't mess it up. Even the things that we think are wrong. Even the things that we think we're screwing up on our we're doing it perfectly because we're giving back information for the Creator to experience as this human this avatar. So no, this is my she's my teacher. I don't even know how I got down that road. And I'm not even sure if I've answered your question or know anything else. But but Yeah, whoa, I love a lot of what you said there. And really, I think I love all religions, I think it's really fascinating. And I've spent a lot of my life studying them in college and just just life. And the thing that I see is religion is is truly a human construct, to because Because human brains, we need labels, we need to make sense of things. And so it really is human made a lot of it's born out of tradition. But then somewhere along the way religions got really political. They got really, in a sense, they got kind of hateful and very, not I'm sorry, let me take that back. The whole religion didn't get hateful. A lot of people infuse their way into Yes, yes. And I think religions, like you said, it's, there's, there's one God, there's usually a main teacher or a prophet that's teaching, you have to have our way. Yes. Yep. And then and then if you don't like exactly, so there's no Buddha, Jesus and Abraham, and I know I'm missing a lot of other important figures. And then they they're just different. They're just different vehicles to the exact same source, but it's just in a way that people can more readily understand based on their culture. And then I think too, with just religion in general, I didn't love the scare tactics like you were talking about just the, the scare tactics of do this, or you're going to hell and I remember thinking that too. Like, I don't, I don't want to go to hell. But also, I've seen all these things and I want to know more. A guy I remember, specifically in Branson, Missouri. I was on a little trip with my cousin and my aunt and uncle and I was I want to say like, in middle school, that's the first time I saw 1111. And so I'm like, okay, that's precarious what but that's a beautiful number and then it kept on constantly. And so to me, I then had this inner knowing like I have no idea what they Hell I came up with this just in because we know things that we don't really know. When we see those Angel numbers for me at that time, it was 1111, when we see those, that's a signpost from God from our spirit guides that Hey, dude, you're on the right path, I keep it going. And that's how I took it, I had no idea why or where I came up with that. And that's yes. Because your soul remembers our soul remembers, you know, it when we, when we tap into our soul and into source like we have access to all of that all of that is, is here. But like, like you were saying the fear tactics and the control tools like it is it is meant in a way to control us to keep us from questioning and from because if when you have your own connection to Source, people cannot control you. People cannot manipulate you, people cannot scare you into doing something that you don't want to do. You know, and so a big part of religion is programming you not to question. And then what a lot of people do that use this as a as a control tool is say, Well, I'm supported by God. So if you support God, and if you believe in God, then you need to vote him for me. And then that was not and that's enough for most people. If they think, Oh, hey, if I believe in God, then hey, I'm good for life. But I can go do all these other really shitty things. And it doesn't matter because I believe in God. Wait, what? Yeah. And that's the shadow being in total control, the ego being in total control. But they people feel so shitty when they do that, that is just like a continued cycle, they have to keep doing the thing, because they think that's going to make them happy, because they're miserable. But they're miserable, because they're doing the thing because their soul knows that that's not. That's not how people want to live, it's really hard to actually be those people. So in our, in my practice, we believe that even those people who are really shitty, really bad people. And this is another level. So I hope you all are sitting down. But those people are doing sources work. Those people who are you know, controlling us and keeping us afraid and being bad and doing mean things. They're actually doing us a favor, they're helping us wake up. And it's actually really hard to be that person in this life because their soul knows that that's not who they are. At a core level no one wants to do that. Right on a soul level. Nobody wants to do that it we get lost in our shadow and and our ego, but they're also helping people overcome. They're helping people wake up, they're helping people become stronger. So it's like a very higher view of these people. But if you want to get out of being afraid, if you want to get out of having someone control your relationship with God or source, then religion is only going to get you so far in spirituality is where you begin to take your own relationship to with God back and start having conversations with God yourself. Instead of having someone else tell you what God said. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, everybody that was, was my job, like, let's just end it. But I think I'm just going with that and looking at people that have done you know, shitty things. And I think it's one of the things especially through shamanism that I have learned. And really also therapy because like we were talking about earlier, we have these those different bodies, and we have the physical and why can't remember the second one. mental, physical, mental, emotional. Oh, gosh, help me out here. Spiritual, the energetic. Yep, it's the energetic, mental, emotional and physical body. There we go. So what's interesting is if we're working on things at the same time, like I was working on, you know, going through therapy, and I was going through trauma therapy, I was involved with EMDR therapy. And if you're not familiar with that listening, it's really talking about kind of lighting up both sides of your brain through either there's lights mine were these like little buzzers that I held and they were going back and forth. And my my therapist asked me because I too, came from a very tumultuous chaotic household. We were, you know, we didn't have money. My parents were in a crazy codependent relationship. And there was a lot of verbal, emotional and sometimes physical abuse happening. And I too, was diagnosed with complex PTSD. So when you're telling your story, I'm like, this is all very Aries similar. And I remember she asked me this question, she asked me to draw up one of the scariest thoughts I had about my parents like the scariest memory and we were driving to the circus of all places. And my parents got into this awful fight. They were screaming, I was crying. My mom kicked my dad out of the car and made him walk like eight miles, which was like go mom, because that's not usually get her that's not usually her. And she said, My therapist that I want you to talk to that little girl in the car, what do you want to tell her? And of course, everything's gonna be okay. Right? And she's like, What do you want to tell your parents? And of course that was I was pissed. I was pissed at that. I didn't know. Yeah, I was like, you know, like, what, look at what you guys have done to me, I don't even know how much money I've spent on therapy, and everything and all these things. And it was mean. And then she said something that completely changed my perspective. She said, I want you to view your parents from the lens of compassion, that they are acting from their own life experiences with very minimal tools. And that changed everything. For me. I do believe that people are shitty for a reason. I think bad things happen to us sometimes to be a catalyst for the change that source knows within us, sometimes we just need that push. I feel that way about my sexual assault, trigger warning. But to talk about that for a second. I feel I feel as if that sexual assault that happened in March of 2021 really was the catalyst for me to go on this journey to dig way deeper than I have ever, ever dug into spirituality and religion. And I believe shit now that if you would have asked me a year ago, I would have thought that I was a freakin crazy person. But somehow all of it just make sense now, and I just, I see how it's all connected. And so shamanism has also taught me to view people with compassion and know that they're doing their best. They're doing their best, and their reaction to you as nothing to do with you. Mm hmm. 100% 100% and, and, and all to all too often with religion. You know, it doesn't matter what practice maybe your practice is prayer, or meditation or shamanic journey. And maybe you have instruments of rosary beads, tarot cards, crystals, whatever, that whatever you, whatever you use, it's always just bringing us back to the center. So we can just focus on that source energy within us because it's, it's, it's within us, God is within us. And if we step out of our own egos for long enough to realize and to celebrate the diversity of all of the religions, and instead of listening to people to just go in there and defend your own religion, or try to sway them to come on over to yours, you'll realize that God created all of these, these people in the likeness and image of, of God. And there's a diverse celebration that we should be happening and learning from one another. And then you just pick it pick and choose what works for you and what doesn't. Mm hmm. I call it your inner Bell, your inner Bell, your inner knowing is going to be like thing, when you hear something that's true. Like, as I was going through before, there was Mooney came before there was the Mesa that we do the formal training. None of that was offered. My teacher didn't teach any of that yet. And she had the spiritual mentorship class and she called it the mini mesa. And it was basically like giving us some teachings but not teaching us the Mesa but giving us some teachings to begin helping us progress. And I remember all six classes going in there and hearing things that I'd never literally never heard before. concepts that I learned literally never heard before. And known without a shadow of a doubt for them them to be true. Because it was like remembering, I would hear it. It was like remembering. What was the truth. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah, totally. What I think too, with the Mooney Mooney key, I just going through that with you. I've always had an extra dose of something with me of my dad would say we would walk past a streetlight when we're out and about and it would flash off. And he always said, There's something special about you. I just don't know what like there's some sort of spiritual connection there. And I always I've just find that so interesting to me. And I've always had a relationship with source with God with the universe. And I'm a big believer, as I know, Lauren, you are that truth has a lot of different names. God has a lot of different names, but there's one truth. And so if you hear us interchanging those words, they mean the same thing. And so I've had that relationship with with with God and the divine. But my spiritual awakening, my spiritual understanding is just accelerated since we started working together. I mean, I'm having the most vivid meditations, of having, you know, telepathy that like what I've never in a million years. And I'm finally starting to understand how spirit guides and ancestors and source really communicates with us because I was always waiting for this communication like we're doing Right now like, Hey, this is God here, do like, you know, really articulate. But for me, it comes in symbols, it's pictures of things. For example, the other night I was meditating really, really heavily. And I had this image of just walking upstairs and they were like the stairs that were just constantly moving. And it could never get to the freakin top. And then sometimes I would get there, and then I would fall back. And so at the end, I finally made it to the top of the steps and there was this bright light. And I got this feeling this this message that you're here, like you, you're fine, like it's your time. Mm hmm. And I've never had that vivid of a meditation before that I believed 100% Like, there was no doubt in my mind that something was I was being communicated with, right? Well, you think about it like words or manmade source doesn't use words, words, we made words, words or sounds that we assign meaning to. Right? So spirit doesn't really use words, Spirit uses, signs, symbols, emotions, inner knowing. You know, and we all have the ability to access this, we all have the ability to be telepathic, we all have the ability to heal ourselves and others, we all have the ability to have an inner standing, right? We have access to all of this, we just haven't been taught how to access this. This degree right? But you've been you've been seeking, you've been seeking you've been seeking, if you seek spiritual answer, you will find you will find it. But we've that's why they had to scare us so much not to go looking for it. Right. You have to really instill fear into someone to not go looking for it. Because if you go looking for spirit, you're going to find it. And the messages are profound. And it doesn't you know, sometimes it creeps up but the beauty of what I teach and again, you don't have to do it my way, but my way is my lineages way and it's just it's been used for so many years for so long, that it is a way that will help you move through it quicker get to that relationship faster for you to get your own answers. And especially the Mauna Kea is ceremonial rites where you're getting energetic downloads and transmissions right so your your genes are now being expressed differently you're thinking differently now you're you're more connected with spirit now and and this will progressively get stronger and stronger and stronger. It takes about five years for you to fully integrate the downloads and ceremonies that we do in the moon and key but you don't have to do the moon a key to to build these skills and you just have to come with a willingness and with an intention consistently showing up and being like spirit I'm here spirit I'm here spirit I'm here if you do that enough times spirit will answer you know, but everything your way up. Yes. you've defined your vehicle your way Your modality and and you know for you and I that has been through shamanism and, and I'm so I'm just so grateful for it and and then often too, we don't we live in such a cerebral society. And we think that all the answers are up here in this brain of ours, when really that's not the case, because our ego is housed mostly in our brain. But if we if we stopped long enough just to be still in for me that's through meditation. Some I like to meditate in a dark room, I have this whole whole meditation room, but then I also like to walk like I like to be in nature. Because I think it's fascinating. And we learn we'll have to do another episode just on energy. Yeah, topic. But what's what's really cool about major is it's a harmonious frequency it is just the frequency is just so harmonious and balanced. So even just stepping into nature for a few minutes every day, we're affected by that harmonious frequency. But being such a cerebral society, we don't stop and stand still long enough. Because if we stay on still, we're probably to think some things that are scary and that really freakin hurt. And if we don't if we don't, we're gonna distract. Yeah, yeah, like exactly. But if we do I know that would well. Desiree must knock my desk over. But if we if we go outside, if we listen, if we are just quiet and we quiet our mind, and we're just leading into that, that feeling in our hearts. When spirit drops those pebbles into our very still pond. It's going to be easier just to look at it and grab it and know what that little pebble is. as opposed to having this tumultuous, crazy raging sea, that when spirit drops a pebble in it, you're gonna be like, How the hell am I supposed to find that pebble, we just have to be quiet, we just have to ask for that guidance. Mm hmm. I find and it's, you know, it is the energy of things. But I've in spirit is everywhere, sources everywhere, we can't disconnect ourselves from it. It's within us. Without us. It's everywhere. But I find that it is easier for me to find the stillness in nature, because of energetically what it's offering and the consciousness there. And because of evolutionary wise, we're still an animal. You know, we intellectualize and think that we're not animals. We are, we are, we're just humans. Alright. But going out there chemically changes things in our brain and allows us to be more open to receiving that information. And it's very healing on all the all the different levels. My daughter a couple weeks ago, she's she's seven, and she's very, very, she knows things that I just am so flabbergasted that she knows and is deeply connected with with source, and doesn't even really understand what's happening. But she said, um, how can we go outside and then we come back, and I feel kind of buzzy, you've got this like, feeling in me? Yeah, that's because you're, you're and I explained it to you, you know, you're elevating your frequency, and, you know, all this stuff. And she looked at me like, okay, okay, I'm, like, okay. And I told her, I was like, okay, you don't need to know why just enjoy the feeling. Because if you keep enjoying the feeling, you're going to find other ways to get that feeling. And it's going to become addicted, addicting and a good way to enjoy that. That high frequency feeling. But like we were talking earlier, it's not all good vibe tribe. Like, in fact, I think good vibe tribe is stupid. Because, yeah, it's so toxic. I've learned more just by digging into my depression and my grief and my trauma. And it's scary as all hell. But I've learned more that way than trying to focus just on the positive, because what happens is, when your brain experiences a trauma, or some sort of negative, just negative, whatever, if your brain doesn't have the coping skills, or the tools to process that on command, it's going to drop it into your subconscious. And when it sits in your subconscious, you're constantly going to be triggered over and over and over again, until you deal with it. Now, that's what I was doing in EMDR therapy, is she brought that really scary memory up to the surface, and I was able to process through it. So yes, that is still a very sad memory. But I don't get triggered by things that remind me of that memory anymore, because I've dealt with it. And that's how we have to look at everything. And I don't even I mean, what advice would you give to people listening? If they just wanted to start their own practice of digging into their shadow? And I know that you, you have, do you do Shadow Work? Coach? Do you do that one on one stuff? Okay. Yes, they do so. So besides that? What could How could people start digging into that their own shadows. So I teach, the first thing that you can do when you're starting to work with your shadows is notice where you judge yourself and others, because that is a very quick way for you to notice where you have the shadow and a shadow is always protecting a trauma, or a belief. So when you start, so when you start practicing that self awareness of where you're judging yourself or others, you can begin to what we do in shamanism. And what we do in shadow work is we find the root we find the core belief or experience that, that all of these other secondary traumas and secondary beliefs and, and where the shadow grew out of, right? So what we can do is we can begin to track back and be like, well, when did I start to think this about people? Or when did I start to think that that was a bad thing? Okay, is do I believe this? Or who gave this belief to me? Right, it's really starting, you have to be curious when you're working with your shadow, and because when you're going to find some shit that you don't like, I mean, you're going to find some shit about you that you don't like that you do as a way to protect yourself as a way that your shadow has tried to adapt to protect you. And that's all the ego is. It's our Protector. And sometimes we just let it, you know, do too much of the work for us. But so it's practicing that self awareness, finding where we judge ourselves or others getting curious and asking ourselves, Well, where did that come from? And do I actually believe that, okay, that's like, that's part of it. Now, you can do all of that stuff. But if you don't do the integration work, it's still gonna come up for you. You know what I mean? So once you figure out that it's a belief that you have, what that belief is where it came from, what the root is. that doesn't just make it go away, it makes it better because now you have the awareness, but then you have to actively begin to work with each time it comes up again, redressing that belief because you've held that shadow and that shadow has been fed by that belief for so long, we have to slowly take the power back and integrate it and understand. So I'll give you an example. So like, one of the things that I judge people for was like, difficult people, or people who knew what they wanted. Right? The other version of that is someone who knows what they want someone who won't, you know, sacrifice their values or their standard for things. But I was taught as a child because I knew what I liked, that I was too critical that I was, you know, bossy. I was a bitch, as I got older. So that's the label I took on. And so then I judged other people when I thought they were being too bossy. But that was because I had a belief about myself that if I was too demanding, then I was asking for too much. And so I had to find that belief came back from all the way back when I was a kid, and my parents were stressed out and they were struggling to survive mentally, emotionally. And I was a high energy kid who wanted a lot of attention. And so then I began to internalize that belief of I'm too much, I'm bossy I asked a lot, I'm, I'm critical that so then I would judge other people. So once I found that every time then I had that old emotion or that old shadow come up of thinking, that person's being bossy, or I'm being too critical, I would really have to sit with it and be like, Okay, what part of that is true? Is there any truth to that? Because there can be truth, sometimes. But then what other part of me just needs to be validated? Like, no, I just know what I want. And no, I'm not going to sacrifice my standards. And, you know, yes, I'll be compassionate. And I'll be patient, but I won't take from my vision, etc, right? That you have to validate that again, and again, to replace that old belief that you're unlearning or deprogramming. It's a process why we have to become aware of it, then we have to figure out where it started, we have to address where it's coming up in our lives. And then we have to replace it with that new belief or that golden shadow or gift that we want to gain from it. Once I got rid of the belief that I'm critical, which let me tell you, it does still come up. Because, you know, it's, it's there. But now when I noticed that I, I'm like, You know what, no, I'm not. This is good. And I just I talked about it, and I verbalize it and moves on. But now people can't gaslight me into thinking that I'm asking for too much. People are not taking advantage of me anymore, you know, etc, etc, etc. And so that is the gift or the golden shadow of when we integrate the shadow. I get what I want. Now, way more. And with much less effort than before. I love I was trying to think of mine. Actually, I had my shadow at one of my shadows pop up on the way into the office to start recording this podcast because I started feeling this it was it's self sabotage for me. So I started thinking like, Laura knows so much more. Right, like, Lauren. I know. I know, right? It's not your we both know a lot of things. And that's great. But you know, that started happening. And then I was like, okay, all these things are popping on like, I should I just got this little glimmer of I should reschedule, like, shut? No, you're not gonna do that. Right? Yeah. And so um, well, for me, where that comes from is knowing growing up and not having a lot of money. I saw my parents working their ass off to not really get anywhere. And so to me, when I go to self sabotage, it's because I think, my work, my cannot be fun. It's got to be a grind. It's got to be a hustle. And then also that I'm not worthy of the success that I want for myself. And that's just because what happens is our brain has an experience, something happens to us. And maybe in that moment, it serves us like that is a protection that serves us in that moment. And then our brain starts looking around and saying, Hey, like where are some evidence to support that this is a solid belief. And it finds that it's just like when you think about a yellow car, you're going to see a yellow car, about everybody listening to this is gonna see a yellow car today. But it finds up evidence and then you use that defense mechanism again, and it works again, and then all of a sudden your brain is like, Hey, this is a good belief, and then carry you carry it throughout your entire lifetime. It becomes so automatic. You don't even realize you're you're utilizing that coping mechanism. I've done that for so long. My self sabotage runs deep. I'm working on it and Like you said, I audibly said to myself, you, you do deserve success, you are successful, like I immediately started hitting with, with affirmations. And it changes it real quick. Well, it really does. So I guess any final thoughts just on religion, spirituality, anything that we talked about today? Yeah, I would say, Come to everything. Religion, none of these things are bad, nothing is bad. It's all about what you how you use it. Right? What information you take from it, and how you utilize it in your life. So, you know, if you find beauty, if you find harmony in in things, then that's good. You know, and if you're finding disharmony or contrast in something, then maybe take a look at it, and, and work at opening your mind or getting curious about the other possibilities out there. And I think that starts with just allowing yourself to take that scary leap of beginning to question everything, you know, and it is tedious, and it takes a long time. But you What's the rush? You know? Yeah, I, I felt myself cringe a little when you said that it's a five, five years before we're fully integrated, like I just started, it's just my first year. Right? What's the recipe? And I think too, is as humans, we are meaning making machines. Like, we just want to find the meaning and everything. And I think at our core, religion and spirituality are both rooted in trying to understand the meaning of life. There's just this fundamental characteristic to humans that, that we believe this life, or that we believe life has more meaning that our life has more meaning. But what if we just stopped and we just loved one another end of story, like we just listened to everyone's beliefs that are related to God, and we just love them for that we respected them. And we didn't try to change their minds or persuade or do any of this. But we just celebrate that we both love God, we just choose a different way to understand God, whether you visit a mosque, or you meditate, or you go to church on Sunday, what does it matter? We just should love each other, and the rest kind of falls into place. 100% Well, thank you. So thank you so much for this. I'm really really, I'm just so grateful for you. And I know if you guys haven't caught on, I'm a student of Lawrence and I'm going through the Mooney key with her and my amazing tribe and I just absolutely love it is there Do you have any any upcoming things? What's what's going on in your Yeah, your run so I'm always offering new rounds of Maneki so I would say check in on my website or on my social media to see the next upcoming I'm going to key classes I have some starting actually two new rounds starting this week but then I also have some next month and the following month so there's always an opportunity to get in on that and then I also launch am launching have launched my program for this year that's called highest and healed which is my hybridized version of my teachers spiritual mentorship class than any Mesa and my shadow work expertise so we're doing that right now as well so the highest and healed in the moon a key are my two big focuses this year, which if you join the one in April, I'm going to be in it so y'all heard it here. And and everyone listening I I wholeheartedly attribute a lot of my just healing and understanding to Lauren, I know that I'm the one doing the work. However, she is the catalyst that has taught me so much and literally the day I stopped and said to my local shaman whom I love dearly, and I said this is just not the direction that I want to go in. I want to learn more. Lauren comes across my Instagram feed, and I'm like, you gotta be freakin kidding me. Okay, and I messaged her and told her the story and the rest is history. So if you have the opportunity to walk with Lauren through something, any of our classes, you are going to get something out of it. And I'm just I'm so excited for you to have that in your life. So thank you, Lauren. Thank you, listeners. And we thank you. We will talk soon listeners. Yes, love you guys. Thank you. Bye everyone.