Consciously Unbecoming
Consciously Unbecoming
2: Put Your Mask On - The Birth of Beliefs
HEY THERE, ya fierce difference maker. We are glad you stopped by!
Welcome to episode 2 of Consciously Unbecoming!
We are going to begin digging into the masks we create from a very early age to help us show-up in the world. NO, NOT THE COVID MASKS....
These masks we most likely created in childhood to help us cope with life, to fit in, to get by, to live day to day, with little conflict and shame! BUT, these same masks, may not be useful to us as adults thus pushing us to make a change or stay stuck in ways that do not serve us.
Your Mask might come in the form of:
Sit still
Be quiet
Don't cry, suck it up
Bottle your emotions
Be independent
Don't let people help
Be strong
Do well in school
Get good grades
Hustle, hustle, hustle
Accomplish and achieve
Fit in
Follow a certain religion
Marry a certain gender
Follow a certain career path
Act in a certain way.
Feel in a certain way.
Behave in a certain way.
Believe in a certain way.
I have to look a certain way.
I have to follow a certain life path
Have kids and settle down
And, when we defect from this mask and take it off - are we okay with the consequences and expectations or do we want to continue living someone else's beliefs?
We hope you enjoy!
PS: The sound is weird in the beginning so watch Lisa blurt out her name. And, me awkwardly laugh....#RealLife
With love,
Jess and Lisa
Hey, everybody, welcome back to consciously unbecoming the podcast. If you are back for our second episode, thank you, and if you are new to the scene, we welcome you when we are glad
[lisa]:Lisa,
[jess]:you'. Here. I'm Je, and this is. this is my bad Asco host and we are so excited to kind of jump into all of the awesome stuff that we have planned for you day and then probably a lot of stuff that' just you know, bounce off the top of our head. But what's interesting is we really laid the groundwork an episode One, Talking about, You know what the hell does it even mean to consciously uncom and dissect that definition? And today we're going to really jump into where those belief systems that we house? Where do they have their beginnings and where can we source them from? But just like we did in the first episode, the lovely Lisa is going to pull some terror cards for us, so take it away, girlfriend,
[lisa]:well, do, uh, so I did pull a couple cards before you and I started recording it a couple minutes ago. and um, I, usually when I pu cards or when I'm going to pull cards for the podcast. It's really just a message for the collective. I'm not asking about anything in particular except that I'm just asking for insight or um, divine wisdom. ulately, and um. So the two cards that I pull just now are a Solarplexas card and a card that's called solitude. So number nine and a typical Ter deck that that card is represented by the hermit. So these two cards together, as I would read. it is really about. There's a message for everyone, listening about the importance of going within and doing doing the personal work. getting to know yourself on a deeper light, and really learning and exploring what it means to be in your power as an individual. Um, and so that does seem very fitting for. even like just, I guess the purpose of this pidcast anyway, but that's a message for today and it also goes along with. I guess the topic we' going to explore too.
[jess]:I know it's so interesting how the universe or God or sourcer or whomever you refer. To really does guide us. and if we're just open to listening, I, I laugh the other day I was kind of, I was deep in meditation and I was also praying, which to me are two different things. and I. I said you know, I'm just universe spirit. I just need a sign to know that I'm on the right path And there was this this really obvious sign that happened to me and I laughed, and I'm like, you know, maybe that wasn't really
[lisa]:Yeah,
[jess]:the sign. I'm going to need a signnier sign than that, And then the spirit and speit guides surprise. I just saw like you, frigg an idiot.
[lisa]:we giving. We're giving you what you want and it's not. It's not right. it' not enough
[jess]:Like what do we have to do? Yeah, like girl, Listen, Oh, so today, um, W. we're really going to dig into our beliefs and it just uh, just remindnder about consciously unbecoming. If this is your first time here, consciously unbecoming Is really this process of taking a look in word, just like the terror card mentioned, and deciding. Okay, where did these beliefs come from? And are they actually beliefs that I want to have, Or do I need to kick some of these to the cur, because they really aren't something I believe. But
[lisa]:right. right. Yeah,
[jess]:those beliefs have to come from somewhere right? Yeah, I mean, and it? I find it so interesting. I'm going to talk. Uh, a little bit about a mask, Lisa, but I don't necessarily mean like the the coved mass that we've so been used to wearing.
[lisa]:Oh,
[jess]:but I, I really mean our mask and how we show up in this world.
[lisa]:listen, that's like it. These masks are so symbolic for all of us right now. Really, Um, because we're all so desperate to be done wearing them and I think as a collective most of us are and I think that like this
[jess]:Mhm, Mhm,
[lisa]:pandemic has brought up so much pain for people to the surface. It's like even being stuck in our homes and being disconnected from others like we've kind of had to sit with our own shit and steing it, and really acknowledge some things that we carry that we, we you know tend to avoid when we go to work and we get ourselves wrapped up in so many things. So, yeah, I just couldn't help but think that, as you would mention the coved masks like you're right, that's on we're talking about, but at the same time like there certainly feels like a connection there. symbolically
[jess]:Yeah, cause we all to burn our masks from
[lisa]:uhhuh,
[jess]:covet and we want to burn our you know our bullshit mass that we show open and wear every day. but um, but really it's okay, so we we're born. You know where this, this beautiful little child and and we', we were born with so much potential and so much love in our hear. and really, there isn't too much coding into our belief systems yet At this at this time. If you're a fan of Um
[lisa]:Mhm,
[jess]:of ancestral work, I know Lisa. You' a big fan of this as well, but you know there is Um, some recording there, and then there's
[lisa]:Yes,
[jess]:some some birth trauma that can affect to some of your beliefs. Do you want to speak to either of those be cause? I know you. You know a little bit more about the subject
[lisa]:yeah, I think maybe holding on to this ancestral trauma conversation. I feel like
[jess]:than I do.
[lisa]:that'll be Um, a podcast in itself, and we can go deeper into it, but certainly you know we're born into
[jess]:Yes,
[lisa]:this world with this genetic code. Uh, that carries sort of the pain and the traumas and the wisdom of the ancestors that came before us, And so that's just sort of like this pie that we're not consciously aware of that exists, Um, and then there's like experiences that our mother has when we're in Uero. Um, sometimes there are women who carry a lot of anxiety or are in, let's say, abusive relationships or are sitting with a lot of fear. And obviously it can be the O. complete opposite of that spectrum, too, right. but that sort of energetically can have an effect on us in a way that we are not consciously aware of, too. Um, but at your right, like as we come into this world, we
[jess]:hm.
[lisa]:are just this this little being with so much potential for what we're going to do with our lives and what we' meant to be and what we' meant to experience. Yes,
[jess]:Yeah, we. we pretty much are a clean slate. Wh Did you think of something else?
[lisa]:No, I was just going to. um, just like bring that back to kind of what you started to talk about. So, I mean in hand to get back over to you.
[jess]:Yeah, bring it. bring it back.
[lisa]:I didn't mean to cut you off. I feel like I cut you offcause. You were in the middle of talking about this like Okay, So we emerge. we emerge into the world as a clean slate.
[jess]:Yeah, absolutely. um. what is it? I think. Uh, it's John Lock said, I can't. I can never pronounce that, but the Tabla rassa, where we're essentially born as a clean slate where we don't
[lisa]:Mhm.
[jess]:have too much of the coding. We don't have too much writing. Um. I lost my scream. Where you are. There's your base. Um, we don't have too much writing encrypted into us at this point, but think about it this. but we're born. We didn't necessarily get to choose our parents or our caregivers. I mean, there's a lot of. There's a lot of spiritual. I
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:guess, Um. Opinions on that, but let's just say for the most part we don't have a ton of control over or uh, who is going to care for us. So we're born into our circumstances, the situations, the environments, you know that we literally cannot control like we are as a as
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:a baby. We are so dependent on our caregivers to literally give us life to feed us to change us to keep us clean, and we don't really have much control over that, so we begin seeing things and hearing things, and all of a sudden this this empty slate becomes written on. There's some coding so we see these big old adults walking around and they're scary and for a while they're kind of bluery because our eyes aren't fully developed and we depend on them for everything, And then um like that that they put this kind of intentional or or inadvertent mask on us that we that we have to put on because we know like well, if we keep crying, they're going to get angry or they're going to get upset, like as child or as a child if they, Um, you know if I, if I cry it. Makes my mom and dad upset. It makes them angry, They get stressed out. Uh, And then, what's also interesting is we see our parents modeling things and doing things that we often pick up as our own belief systems, or even our own cope mechanisms, and and ways of reacting. So I just said a lot of stuff
[lisa]:um, yeah, I mean
[jess]:there. So do you want to comment on any of that
[lisa]:they. they. whoever they, as psychologists, I guess say that, Uh, the first seven years are the most important for parents to like get it right. Which, Oh man, as a parent I'll spend on that if
[jess]:Mhm?
[lisa]:I allow myself too, cause I think I some
[jess]:Yeah,
[lisa]:up. Um, Yeah, and um, but
[jess]:same hard. say,
[lisa]:you know I think what you're speaking to, and also you know I can't. I can't help a think of things, Um, through our energy. These system are through our chalpers, and and how certain things will start to develop through those early childhood experiences. But that first one. it's like the first chra. It's uh, all about your
[jess]:Mm,
[lisa]:foundation, your structure. So you're right. We come into this world and we're so incredibly vulnerable and impressionable. And if our needs aren't met in those first few years, then it creates a situation where it's very difficult for us to trust the world. Those are the kids or even the adults that you see who have um, attachment disorders or difficulties with attachments, are the kids or the babies that really didn't get their needs met early on, And I realize that there are a lot of different opinions about things like Ah, letting your children cry or your babies cry out and stuff, But you have to think about too, if as we're talking about this on, uh, masking, Okay, what are the messages that babies internalize when their needs are not being met? Um, as, yeah,
[jess]:Yeah, Well, and think about it this way we, we can't necessarily control. I don, not necessarily.
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:We can't control the environment that we were born into, when once we're here once, once we're in Uero, we can't change where we're going to be born. We can't change all of the the trauma
[lisa]:sure,
[jess]:that our caregivers carry with them. We can't change any of their
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:genetic make up or any of that. So we really are victims of our circumstance. And so if you have a baby that is born into poverty or you have a, maybe a caregiver with some, um,
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:I guess some mental health hurdles that they're really not. They're not focusing on. a lot of that energy can translate into that little tiny baby. And and if you're listening to this, and if you're if you're taking offs and not
[lisa]:yeah.
[jess]:meaning to offend you, but I mean we, we have to. there's things that we can't necessarily control as parents. I know I have fucked up a lot of things
[lisa]:Oh,
[jess]:with my kids, so neither Lisa nor ire holier than now at all.
[lisa]:me, too. I mean, I'm speaking about. We're speaking about these things, but I know that there are things that I've done that I could have done a lot differently. And what I want to say with that too, like cause. I'm sure that may trigger all sorts of stuff in people and parents. but you know you have to like,
[jess]:Mhm.
[lisa]:I realize, even from myself and really, for anybody. it's like you have to be forgiving with yourself for the things you. Uh, you didn't necessarily know back then that maybe you know now if that makes sense like, maybe we create challenges or situations that we look back and go. Oh well shit, I could have done that better differently. Yeah, but you know things a whole lot differently now as you grow and evolve. And so it's okay to be compassionate and forgiving with yourself. That makes sense.
[jess]:Yeah, and my, and isn't it my Angela, that says when you know
[lisa]:Yeah,
[jess]:better, do better or some derivative of that, And I mean, I look back I had with my my daughter, who's about to be seven in about a month, which blows my mind. I feel like
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:I was just pregnant with like gwels, and just you know, couldn't put my shoes on, But I, I took for granted a lot of those early
[lisa]:me too. yeah,
[jess]:days being a mother because that identity. Just yeah, I mean, I took for granted I would feel like a large part of her early her early life, because you don't
[lisa]:Mhm,
[jess]:realize that that sleepless
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:newborn stage really does end. But then you're also
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:shifting into a new identity. Uh, So so now you have? Um. So now we have these mass that we put on that are are based on what's happening around us, like we. What are some things that you would say like as children we learn from, I guess
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:our, our parents or our caregivers, or or the world around us,
[lisa]:yeah, um, there's so many things. Um, number one, I mean, there's the direct experiences that we have with our parents, and let's say for example, how um, our parents tend to our emotional needs, Will say a whole lot about how we how we deal with our emotions as we become an adult. So there's how we're impacted by their responses. But then there's also kids are just very observant and they're really just learning from being in their environment, So a lot of that has to do with modeling and how they see how other people deal with their emotional stuff, which will also create that the mask that you're speaking about. Um, So yeah, there's the emotional person. But then that's kind of like as kids were so innocent as we move in the world, whether or that's our singing and dancing and playing, and really, um, creating these experiences of joy as a child, and how the adults tend to respond to that and not just adults, but peers is a big one. too. Um, So it's then what messages are we internalizing about orself based on the way that other people are reacting in responding to us.
[jess]:when in hindsight took me, I'm thirty three. Now took me just about thirty two years to realze that people's reactions to us are essentially not of our business. They are, truly, they truly a
[lisa]:Yes,
[jess]:reflection of them and not us. But that is so hard, even though as enlightened as some of
[lisa]:Mhm,
[jess]:my thought processes are, and in line with my self, I sometimes don't think that where sometimes I, I take it very personally, But what? What you were talking about earlier? Just our parents and how and what they modeling? I, I think about this with my own with my own daughtereetra. I sometimes will get rid frustrated, and all of a sudden I'll be like shit. We're like
[lisa]:right, right,
[jess]:fuck, you know, like like that and I've
[lisa]:Mhm.
[jess]:watched her do this. I have watched her be like shit, and then I'll be like. No,
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:I, you like. Don't say that. and uh, she's like, Will you
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:say it? And how do I react to that Like
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:you're absolutely right. I do that. But what's interesting is just in turn, instead of trying to correct this problem, I see in her I taught her, Um, you know when those words might be appropriate and not appropriate, But then also
[lisa]:Mhm.
[jess]:I watched myself 'cause I knew she
[lisa]:Yes,
[jess]:was getting it for me and I, I did
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:kind of a little, you know, mini case study that when I stopped cussing as much and I vented my frustrations in a different way, she
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:didn't do it anymore. It's like goodness. so then just so think about that. They not only model our bad behavior, but they
[lisa]:yes, absolutely
[jess]:also model our good behavior something to think about. And and I think, Uh thing I wrote down in my note, Blug my chicken scratch. Um, while you were talking, I think back on my own childhood and just some of the the barriers that I would put up or the mass that I would put on, so my parents would fight a lot. They just had a very codependent relationship and they were always fighting. There's always money issues and we were broke as a joke, and just all of these things right. So my dad had a bit of a temper and I, I knew you know. Hey, don't don't go in and say this.
[lisa]:yes, yes,
[jess]:It's goingnna piss dad off and then he, mom's going to come stick up for you and then
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:they're going to get into this big fight and it's go to be this whole big mess And so I learned to just intr. Just
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:suck my feelings back in and deal with it internally, And what's interesting is our brain then takes stock of the surrounding S. our surroundings and says Hey, that cope mechanism that you just used. it starts gathering evidence to prove that that
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:was an appropriate choice. And so every time I use that cope mechanism and it it basically stop to fighter, a fight didn't begin. Because of me, I think my brain says to you myself. Hey, that was the right copy mechanism to use And then it's solidified in the brain. There's a new neural
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:bundle in there that says When this happens, Do this the pro. The problem with that one is that one was a S. That is a mask that I needed to survive childhood. It's a mass that did serve me well. How it doesn't serve me well as an adult is? I internalize my feelings so much that I don't necessarily say them out loud, because I'm so used to having that fierce independence of being able to solve my own problems, and not wanting to rock the boat. and that that presents problems. As an adult. We need to get that shit out. and it it. It pushes people away and doesn't allow for that emotional intimacy that really is needed for a lot of relationships.
[lisa]:yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, um, you may. that's a really great point you make. and um, myself in my childhood I had a very similar conditioning. Um, and I realize that because of that in relationships I tend to put my own emotional needs on the back burner to tend to other people's needs first. And so it sort of becomes a coping mechanism, too, of like keeping the peace right. Um, but then, yeah, like getting to into a position where you're prioritizing yourself over others. You then have this message that I'm being selfish, or maybe I'm being selfish. So then it triggers kind of this other stuff within you. Well, if I put myself first or my needs in any way, am I being a selfish person, which has this negative connotation The idea of being selfish. Um, yeah,
[jess]:Yeah, well, that's uh, so talk. Give me a little bit more on that, that example of just putting your Ks first, and how that make can make one feel selfish. Cause know, I
[lisa]:Mhm.
[jess]:feel that all the time is a mom, so I would love to hear more on that.
[lisa]:Yeah, let me think about that for a second. Um. What do we want to say about it?
[jess]:Do you have any? Do you have any examples in your own life where you feel like you didn't? I guess you put your needs first or sacrice your
[lisa]:Yeah, yeah,
[jess]:needs to kind of
[lisa]:I mean,
[jess]:keep the
[lisa]:I've done that a lot in relationships and I'm very mindful now of that and I think that whenever you bring these things to the surface, Um, and you're you become aware of them, then you have the ability or the capacity to change the pattern, Uh, and to change the experiences for you. So, for me, this is kind of a work in progress, but now I tend to I. I am trying to become aware of when I do that with somebody like I can easily. E. I used to be the type of person that could easily be swayed into something you know. Because you know, let's say I'm with a group of people or this is with my partner. Is what do you want to do? I don't know whatever you want to do or I don't know. I'm really flexible. Um, what do you feel like eating? I always kind of put that power in somebody else's hands to make decisions. Now I stop and I really checking one with myself. And okay, what do I want? What do I feel like eating? Um, what am I comfortable with? What am I not comfortable with? And then I really truly try to honor that And that's like that's when things t really start to change and shift in your life when you start asking those questions and actually honoring what's coming up for you.
[jess]:yes, because somewhere along the road that youve learned that from someone and then your brain took notice and said This is appropriate for you to
[lisa]:Yeah,
[jess]:react this way, and uh, uh, for me just going on that ho. Like what do you want to eat?
[lisa]:Mhm,
[jess]:I ask myself. I do. I genuinely not
[lisa]:Yes,
[jess]:care, or do Ij, or is it even am my two ex? Is my brain too overwhelmed and exhausted at this point to make another
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:damn decision? Um, and I
[lisa]:Yes,
[jess]:just want somebody to freak and make it for me and take care of me.
[lisa]:yes, but either way you are
[jess]:So
[lisa]:checking in with you, which is
[jess]:Mhm,
[lisa]:just the important piece of it of'. not just brushing it aside, but really checking in. Okay. Is that exactly what you just said?
[jess]:well, Um, now I'm hungry for some weird reason.
[lisa]:I was just thinking about like
[jess]:What do you want to eat? Just kidding.
[lisa]:french fries and stuff. I don't know. I feel like greasy food
[jess]:it's a. maybe it's a. It's a trash food kind
[lisa]:right?
[jess]:of day. It's cause it's it's raining here in Vermont,
[lisa]:Yeah, it's not a pretty and it's chilly too, and everything's wet and dark.
[jess]:One of the uh, So with with these mass that we put on as children and just that we grow up wearing now we don't have just this one mass. We have lots of different mass that we put on
[lisa]:I'm
[jess]:Okay,
[lisa]:fine. I'm just having this like mind blowing, Uh, acknowledgement as you're speaking.
[jess]:hit it. Go ahead.
[lisa]:Okay, Well, this is a story, so I don't know how much we have time for it.
[jess]:this is a story.
[lisa]:You're familiar. You're familiars.
[jess]:No,
[lisa]:Okay, so um, you know, just like I showed you the mask right, It's
[jess]:Oh yeah, that mask.
[lisa]:just really wild that it show.
[jess]:it's a physical mask. You all
[lisa]:It's a physical mask. It just showed up in my life just right before we started talking about this podcast and I just don't think I kept. Okay. back story, I,
[jess]:tell the story.
[lisa]:I have this mask right. It's this African mask. Um, I used to work in a snowboard shop when I was younger in college, and this you. I don't know. This guy used to come in all the time and chat with me And he had a pair of snowboard boots that he needed to bring back to Burton up here in Burlington, and I was like no problem bring. I'm bringing up stuff. Why don't I take your boots with me to warranty, and I'll get you a new pair Because they used to be super good about warranty stuff. Maybe they still are. I don't know. So I do that for him. He goes on a business trip to Africa, and when he gets back we connect again and I give him these boots and he gives me as a gift this huge African mask right and he's like, I just want to tell you, I don't know the story of the mask. I know. I got it in the back room of where I bought it. Um, I was told it's pretty powerful and it's an antique and I'm like all right, and me being probably twenty years old at the time, didn't think much of it. Put it on the wall of my shitty apartment. Um, and I think we just like you know, we're probably just getting trash. And just like there was no level of respect for this mask, or at least the respect that it really deserved right. And so it's funny because a lot of things happened in that place where like pipes froze and exploded. We had a huge le. you know, a Fl. a little flooding. and uh, I got a flat tire and got stranded. I mean, there was a series of like three unfortunate events that happened when we first put it up That it freaked me out. I thought it was just because of the mask and I end up putting it in a suitcase and putting it away for literally twenty years, so uh, fast forward to now. Just a few months ago, I'm uh, going through some things in my garage and low and behold there is this box that I have not opened the suitcase. I open it up and the mask is there, But I feel like the mask is asking me to take it out. Wants to be honored, wants to be exploited like it's there for reason right. So I just went through this period of really trying to connect to this mask. I had it up in my office for a while, and that's when
[jess]:I remember.
[lisa]:you saw it right. but I really know, Am sort of under this kind of belief that that mask showed up when you and I started doing the. Really, got working on this sorry consciously on becoming, because the mask of how symbolic it is right,
[jess]:I mean, come on. absolutely.
[lisa]:okay,
[jess]:I remember walking in 'cause I remember walking into your office that day. I'm like. What the hell
[lisa]:yeah, intense.
[jess]:is that? Because? because yeah, this is not some like dinky little mass like this is's gigantic. It's a bit ominous.
[lisa]:it smells like campfire. I mean,
[jess]:but it's it. does. I? ? Yeah, I love that
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:spell though, but uh, yeah, I. I. I'm right there with you be, and these mass that we wear, Uh, they aren't. They aren't the same ones every day like I feel like we have this like bag of mass that we know to put on in social situations when we're hanging out with our our friends versus our our kids kids' parents, friends. Um, when we are at soccer practice and or we're around, maybe our good group of friends that we can be really almost our authentic self, not fully
[lisa]:Mhm.
[jess]:because we rarely do that as humans. So we have all these these mass. But the the thing that we learned really early on that with there's a a fly that keeps flying around me like somebody. look into that spiritual
[lisa]:Right,
[jess]:sign. Um, so what we learn at an early age when we take these masks off, we have a set of expectations,
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:And and or even when we put that mask on there is' still a set of expectations. So for instance, Um, the the consequence of taking your mask off like, let's just talk about that for a second and building that awareness. So if we touch things we aren't supposed to touch. If we save things we aren't supposed to say or we, we believe you know, we believe things that we're not supposed to, or maybe we have our feelings, We, we react in a certain way that just isn't appropriate for the surroundings.
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:Uh, or, and our mass might come in the form of Hey, Sit still be quiet. quit, fidgeting, don't cry. suck it up, butter cup,
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:Uh, you need to be strong or uh, you better do well in school or you're never going to get a scholarship. you, uh, you need to lose weight. You need to, in order to fit in to be loved, you need to be thin.
[lisa]:yes, yes.
[jess]:Uh, maybe you got a merit. You have to marry a certain gender or
[lisa]:Mhm.
[jess]:follow a certain career path. You have to fit in and be popular. I mean What other other mass youth can you think of?
[lisa]:I don't know. I think you just covered so much. I think that like that gives like a really good picture of like the messages that we internalize that create that create that mask. but I started to think about like, Yeah, how scary that can feel to someone to to take it off. You know, because you just kind of anticipate this backlash for this negative feedback from people when you choose to just beat yourself.
[jess]:Mm? I? Yeah, I, I think about too. Gosh. That's such a good point. I think about too. As a as a child, I was always called sensitive and I see that in my daughter now, and the way that I was always met when I would have a a moment of a feeling of overwhelming feeling I would. I was a bi. I cried a lot when I was little and a lot of that was M. displaced feelings around my parents situation.
[lisa]:Yeah, yeah,
[jess]:but I would cry all the time. Everyone would be like You're so sensitive. You're so quippying, a big baby. and and
[lisa]:Mhm,
[jess]:all that sucks like what a like. In hindsight
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:my family didn't know any better, but that sucks
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:and I think about it this way a kid has an emotional reaction and they start screaming and crying. Because whatever reason, and our first response is to be like, be, quiet, like,
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:stop yelling. Especially if you're in the middle of Target and your kids losing their shit,
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:and in, instead of worrying about what our child is going through and feeling or what precipitated that response, we're so worried about the other people staring at us
[lisa]:oh, yeah,
[jess]:and I, I'm not saying like I'm I'm immune to that, because I, I do that and I still do that.
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:But what? that? What do you think that tells that child? Like? what are you inadvertently telling your child when that happens?
[lisa]:exactly
[jess]:And so we have the So this mass? So this, this child in that moment quickly realizes Well, when I lose my shit like that, Mom gets really crazy and starts yelling. I don't think I want to do that anymore. So then we think as pair as like. Oh, we just wow, parent. Wh, we just taught them something, but we actually probably taught them something that we didn't want to teach them. That's not going to be a healthy coping skill down the line of when you have a an overwhelming feeling you should ignore it
[lisa]:yeah. Mhm, Yes, yeah,
[jess]:And that's I feel that mask hard.
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:So the these math these mass are always telling us You know you have to act in a certain way, have to feel in a certain way. behave, uh, I have to look a certain way And and don't di, don't defect from this mass because shit will happen to you and it's not going to be good.
[lisa]:Mhm, yeah,
[jess]:Oh yes, um, so what do I mean? I guess talk to me a little bit more about some childhood masks, Mas, or things that you know. I keep talking and like vomiting everything out on everyone. so
[lisa]:okay, well, I, sorry, I have so many random thoughts thoughts going on in my head because we started talking about kind of um, how how we can sort of develop through all that, this kind of like fear, or um, of what other people will think of us right, and um or how you know? I. I don't know this sensitivity even to how other people just react and respond in general to us, and I remember like a long time ago now. I don't know if this is a quote. Or this person was just like, very wise, but this person looked at me and said, You know, um how there are people who are going to love you and there are going to be people who hate you and it's never going to have anything to do with you. And you really have to consider that And I was like Oh, okay, all right, I'll sit with that, you know not. I wasn't in a place where I could really, um, embody that, but I think there's so much truth to that because really, the way we react and respond to other people is always about us, always about us. It's not to say that we're not responsible for. If we say something shitty to someone, we're responsible for our behavior. We're responsible for what comes out of our mouth. Um, so in that that that's a bit different, but typically if we're treating somebody else in a shitty manner, there's something going on within us that's making us behave or speak in a certain way, and it has a lot to do with our relationship with Ourrself. more than anything.
[jess]:that's fantastic. I just you jog a thought in me with that story that. so it's interesting. I have these moments where I'm working and I'm maintaining the house and all these other things and family and kids. So then my my kids will come home and it's almost a straw that broke the camels back right where it. They do. one. you know, silly little thing, and all of a sudden
[lisa]:Oh yes, right,
[jess]:and you
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:lose your shit right. And so
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:then I, I've stopped myself now because I, I know that I know what this is can do to a childcause.
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:I, There, I will stop myself and I look at my kids and will say that was had nothing to do with you and everything to do with me. That I
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:should not have reacted that way, but I did so I'm going
[lisa]:Mhm,
[jess]:to try to do better next time'.
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:that's not going to solve everything. but at least that's communicating to them like you'. not responsible for my
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:behavior or my feelings or inability to control my emotions.
[lisa]:yes, and a second part that you're teaching is also, I'm owning my stuff. I'm recognizing that I made a mistake and that it's okay to M make a mistake, because we, we can, um, we can more. we can move forward and do a better job, and I think it's so important for parents to be able to do that to be like you know what I fucked up. Maybe we don't use that language, but uh to acknowledge when we make a mistake and we apologize to our kids and we can acknowledge like this is not about you. This is not something you said or did. You are not responsible for making me feel a certain way, Because I realizeed that is maybe a thing that I've put on my kids in the past, and I try to be really conscious of that. Now you know, because I don't know, like I don't know if you've done this where you've seen other parents or just people in general. do it where? Um, it's like you, you tell your child how it made you feel when they did something. Do you know what I'm talking about? Like
[jess]:Yeah, that made Mommy feel mad.
[lisa]:Yes, right now, I mean, we're doing it because we're trying to teach our kids something, but we're also teaching them something they're internalizing. That's not good that. Oh, I'm responsible for my parents's feelings. I'm responsible for other pe people's feelings. And that's like something that we're all trying to unbecom. Or we? should you
[jess]:We should be yes,
[lisa]:know, it's like really something for all all of us to be like releasing and letting go up the responsibility for other people's feelings.
[jess]:o, yeah, or gosh. Like if you, just if you would just listen to me the first time, I wouldn't get like this that'
[lisa]:Yeah, yeah,
[jess]:and I'm liket
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:don't say that Because, but really what? and what to correct That it can sound something like Hey, Nora, I'm really frustrated right now because you' yelling and there's all these things going on. I need to take a beat, but it has nothing to
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:do with how you reacting and everything to do with how I'm taking it, And so
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:yes, oh gosh. that was such a point. I knew where you were going it right away, cause I do this all
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:the time like you just held the mirror up in front of me.
[lisa]:yeah. I. oh. Yeah, well, I was just you know, my kids. I don't you know we have this. Our. our biggest struggle in our household is electronics right now. I mean, I feel like electronics have one. They've taken over especially through the pandemic. Because you know I don't know about you. My husband and I were both working from home, but also trying to teach our kids. let like their lessons and keep them on on task with their schoolwork And it was a shit show to say the least. Um, but they've had more time on video games and Youtube and and T V and all this stuff. And Um, now it's like we're trying to pull back on it and it is. It's just it's so challenging and it's really challenging for them And I realize that like those conversations leave them feeling really deflated and really, I think hurt. And so I'm trying to give him the platform now to express their feelings around these things. So if we have a conversation and it feels like it's getting heated, I kind of flip it and say Okay. Well, how are you feeling right now? Okay when I bring this to your um attention, how is it making you feel? Because I'm really trying to gauge where they're at and what the messages are that they are internalizing based on these like power struggles that are happening in our house right now.
[jess]:That's I. That's I'm sure a lot of people listening can relate to that one. But and all because their brains got used to that comfort level of having those electronics, and now going back from
[lisa]:Yeah, yeah,
[jess]:that their brains like whoa, whoa, whoa, like this is uncomfortable. Even though
[lisa]:right
[jess]:it's a good thing to probably go back on the electronics. The brain is already like yo dog. This is comfortable for me. We're going to I' going go
[lisa]:right, right,
[jess]:and say this is not the way it should be. That's a a good example. Well and with with kids too like, even just think of ourselves as children. Uh,
[lisa]:yeah. yeah,
[jess]:no one tells you that you have a mascot. No one tells you why you have to wear these mass. like kids. Kids will just conclude that if I take my mask off, then I will lose love, cause, really,
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:to them, that's what
[lisa]:yes, yes,
[jess]:it comes down to it equates. too. I'm either loved or I am not loved. So when that mass comes
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:off, then a consequence occurs. Maybe we burn our hands, or um, I kicked
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:the ball and the vae broke. or we're too sensitive or were sent to our rooms. We just know that that there is a consequence, and a lot of those consequences come in the form of our parents getting pissed at us or yelling. And to them, that translates to a
[lisa]:yes, Mhm,
[jess]:lack of love.
[lisa]:yes, exactly yeah.
[jess]:It's cause it's just. it's just as simple to them in their brains.
[lisa]:you. Just you know, you just brought up such an important piece of this is the expectations. It's all based on the expectations that people have for us and whether we're able to meet them or not. And you know, so it's the verys, sick. They're very basic things. and then there's bigger things like. I never experienced this myself. But I, through therapy and meeting with people, Um, you know, meeting people whose parents have these expectations that they're going to go to an Ivy league school or Um, they're going to become a lawyer like their father or their grandfather or a doctor. And and those are just random examples. But sometimes the are these are the. It doesn't matter. I mean, there's those examples and there there's the face. Very basic things about whether or not their children are following in their organized religions, and sort of roles and regulation which will get into religion at some
[jess]:Yeah, that's a whole seventy two episodes.
[lisa]:point. right. Oh, my gosh, or how are Ch. You know how children their personality presents, Whether uh, they're They're too loud, Um, or they're not studious enough. They're not trying hard enough, or you know that,
[jess]:Or they don't like something that we like to growing up and we really wanted that.
[lisa]:Oh, oh yeah, yeah, parents. v. Yeah, completely, parents want it like whether it's consciously or not consciously, Parents vicariously will live through their parents. I mean, I had a friend growing up who was in a lot of pageants and her mom was like super pageant mother, you know, like, really, kind of was like driving this stuff all the time. I never really actually had a conversation with this friend about whether or not she really genuinely enjoyed doing that stuff. Um, but I always saw her mother as this person who pushed her out there and doing this stuff. Um, and I, I don't know how much she would have been into that had it not been so pushed on her from the moment she was old enough to do pageants. You know what I mean. so yeah, w. sorry. are you going to say something?
[jess]:No, no, I. I have a good friend that is Korean and she, she identifiess female and her parents growing up and and her community. they wanted her to to get into a really good college and become a doctor, just like the whole family of doctors, and Maria, um assist man, and have a a kid or two, And she said it was about. I guess it was in mid college where she's like Fuck this like. I don't want to be a doctor. I'm also lesbian
[lisa]:Yes, yeah,
[jess]:and she's like,
[lisa]:yes, yes,
[jess]:Talk about that conversation with your parents. of Hey, you know everything you thought I was going to be. I'm literally the opposite. I want to be an artist and I'm a lesbian.
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:And what? First off, there's so many people that experience that that are living their lives according to someone else, according to those beliefs that their parents have for them,
[lisa]:yeah, oh yeah,
[jess]:and then they get to be. You know, forty, forty, one, forty five, and then they realize it. Holy shit, what have I done with my life? I, and there's and that's that. I don't. Um. I'm not judging anyone because that is, those are hard
[lisa]:yes, yeah, completely
[jess]:conversations to have and there's so many people that lose the loved ones because of those conversations. So when? as Oh
[lisa]:yeah.
[jess]:God,
[lisa]:Because, well, it just you know, in talking with like um, friends or people in therapy, really for them, feels like they have to make a choice between their family and themselves and it's a really difficult choice to make you know. Go ahead
[jess]:w. yeah, No, Well, and as as parents are, we look at our our own parents. Uh, our parents don't want their kids to get beaten up on the playground, right we? you know, Um, we don't want
[lisa]:right.
[jess]:our kids looking like total freaking weirdoes like we want good things for them. We, we don't want them to get made fun of. We want them to have prestige and financially stable lives, and to do all these things like we have good intentions for our children. And just sometimes there's these subconscious beliefs that we pick up that our children pick up that aren't always cer youo, serbing, like, for instance, the um, the definition you look at, Look at the way that you grew up. So I grew up with a sist, uh, dad, male, cis, female Mom, And for me that's what a family looked like. A family was a male and a female and
[lisa]:yeah. Mhm, yeah,
[jess]:the handsome kids and they lived in this big house and
[lisa]:Mhm,
[jess]:that was a.
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:That was what a family was. So then that is that kind of becomes my world view just by just by association just by being there. Luckily, I have. I had parents that were really open minded, so they were always teaching me about other variations of families, But for some people they don't, They don't grow up with that, So you get into the world and you have these. Uh, you know you have all different variations of families now, Um, two two males, two women. I'm sure I'm messing up something with genders these days or people that are non binary. And if I am
[lisa]:yeah, mhm. Yeah,
[jess]:messing something up, y'll please call me out on it. Um. but we have all these variations of families and some people when they grow up through life, and they see that and it's completely different from what they grew up with their body. Their central nervous system, their brain sets off all these alarms and says this is not right. This is not right. I don't, or, or with religion, you grew up with Jesus. You grew up with Um, the Holy Trinity and and Catholicism, And then you, you meet someone from another religion.
[lisa]:yeah, yeah, yeah,
[jess]:And the first thing you say is they're not right. It's all of these things and luckily
[lisa]:Mhm.
[jess]:we get to go through life if we're fortunate enough and decide somewhere along the way we get to go through life if we're fortunate enough and decide somewhere along the way we get to go through life if we're fortunate enough and decide somewhere along the way that Hey, it's okay if other people that Hey, it's okay if other people that Hey, it's okay if other people worship God in a different way. It's okay if a family is comprised of of two moms instead of a mom and a dad. if it's we're fortunate
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:to get to that place. But we see so many issues that occur in this world because people aren't willing to step back and say it's okay to be different. Their world view is being challenged from what they've always grown up seeing.
[lisa]:yes, yeah, completely,
[jess]:I
[lisa]:um,
[jess]:find that I always have found that so fascinatingcause we. really, our early beliefs are formed because of what we are surrounded by.
[lisa]:right, right, and when people internalize these belief systems, you know in that type of structure anyway, you're sort of given us idea that that belief system is supposed to be for everyone, not just you but for everyone. And that's how we start to develop judgment. right. Um, you know we already have our judgments or deep judgments of Ourrself through all this conditioning and all these experiences. But then that's what makes it so you know that we can judge uh, the rest of the world, But really, if we develop our own belief system for Orself and Ourrself only then we all really could get along a whole lot better if we could just keep our focus on ourselves and less on other
[jess]:Gosh. I never even thought about that. Just our own beliefs, then form our judgments
[lisa]:people around us.
[jess]:about others in the world. that is such a profound statement.
[lisa]:Yeah,
[jess]:Can you talk a little bit more about that? Do you have any more? any more juics to talk about it?
[lisa]:any more Youice to talk about that? Well, let me think about that. I mean, I, just you know, it's V. It's just a very basic thing. It's our judgments are others of others is really based on our judgment of oursel. So we keep oursel within this Um box, ultimately, or the structure of I need to be this. I need to be that. I need to. And so when we see somebody else out of line from what is our own internale lief system, it's very quick for us to be able to see that and make a judgment of it, and then develop an opinion of that person based on that judgment. Really, if we were wise, and this is like something that everybody can sort of get into the practice of. So when we find orself triggered by something else, somebody else is doing the best thing in that moment to do is to say, Okay. Well, what is it within me that's getting triggered by this thing that this other pe this other person is doing are sang? It's always important to bring it back to the self to ask Ourrself an inquiry of questions. What is it about me that's being triggered by something that this other person is doing or saying, Those of the parts are ourselves that need the healing most.
[jess]:Ooh, Yes, I did this recently and it took me a long time before I actually like asked myself this, and I wish I would have done it sooner, But there was a situation that was happening with work and I was kind of being left out of the loop, but it in my mind that the dialogue that I started saying is, Oh gosh, I did something wrong or I fucked up or they don't like me anymore. Like all these like different things that came up when. really, if I would have
[lisa]:Yeah, yeah or
[jess]:stepped back, I would have realized Hey, them not keeping me in the loop is triggering a core wound of mine of feeling out of control. And when I don't feel
[lisa]:yes.
[jess]:in control, it feels like everything
[lisa]:Yes,
[jess]:starts to spiral When really like, If you stepped back from that situation
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:and you were to ask me and the other people involved, they would have just said Hey, we were really fucking busy working on other stuff. That's really all it was. But for me,
[lisa]:yes, yeah,
[jess]:I internalized it based on a lot of
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:other things. Well, and
[lisa]:oh
[jess]:oh thank you.
[lisa]:yes. you're picking up on a big thing, Je.
[jess]:it's hard. It's something that's hard to do though in the moment and but hopefully I, I noticed it with myself
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:as as I get in more in the habit of of of turning that light that I'm shining
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:on others Back this way I'm able to to do a lot quicker than I. I usually am. Well, I think too, just says, as being children, think about it this way you were. You bring home a test and you got an A on it. You're praised. You bring home a test you got to see on it. Maybe you're not scolded. Maybe it's just you can tell that your parents are disappointed, or or what? Not, So Then in your mind something is triggered where it's
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:like I need to get an A to be loved to be worthy to deserve praise. Um, or for instance, Um,
[lisa]:yes, yeah,
[jess]:you lose at your soccer game or whatever, and your parents aren't as excited as they were when you won, and all too often as children
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:we don't have anyone saying like hi. You are loved. You are loved without condition. You don't need to do a damn thing to earn our love, because exactly who you are right now on this moment, no matter what we love you, and I tell that to my kids all of the time now, because I i for so long and I still feel this way that sometimes love is very conditional for for me and I notice myself telling it to my children
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:constantly like you're loved without condition. who you are right now is perfect and wonderful. I don't tell myself that enough. It's just because I didn't grow up having it doesn't
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:mean I can't be the one telling it to myself. Now.
[lisa]:yeah, yeah, and that's the healing piece right. It's like we're not responsible for what's happened to us, but we are responsible for our own healing, and actually that means stepping it up and being those people who we didn't necessarily have in our life that we needed. So if we needed the parent who valid validated our feelings and gave us a hug when we need it, then that's the person we need to be in those moments when
[jess]:Absolutely we have to reparent ourselves. That's a whole Ne episode too. Me. write
[lisa]:we're being triggered,
[jess]:that down.
[lisa]:and also uh, unconditional love. That is a big topic, too. Um, because I think like we talk about unconditional love, but I don't know how many people truly
[jess]:Yes, yes,
[lisa]:you know, truly practice it. Um, you know that plays a big role, and parents with the away parents, parents right, and how we punish where we praise. That gives children this concept of their worthiness, but also it gives them a concept of what love means in, and just
[jess]:yeah, love is dependent on something else. It is a condition of getting an A on a
[lisa]:sort of the examples that you just gave. so
[jess]:test. so let me take that example further into
[lisa]:yeah, yeah,
[jess]:what that looks like an adulthood. Because we all know something we learn in childhood. We often take
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:into our adult life, but look at those people out there and I've been one of them and still am one of them That I'm always hustling and grinding and I got to. I got to be more successful. I got to make more money and all of these things, and I'm always hustling and grinding to the next goal. And then it's never. It's never going to be. It's never enough. It's never enough. Or are those people that we're
[lisa]:Mhm,
[jess]:working eighty five hours a week like this fricking badge of honor And it's it's this like they're bragging about it to
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:people like. Ooh, great congratulations for sacrificing your own mental emotional health. For what? For fucking what? And so that's what
[lisa]:right, right, yeah,
[jess]:I mean. When when are our parents? And our parents didn't mean to create this within us, but they did of when you do something well and you achieve something.
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:That's when you're worthy of the most love. And that's what it looks like in our
[lisa]:right,
[jess]:adult life, and that is, that's really hard to overcome.
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:So I know I know we are actually like we are. Um, what
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:did I say the other day Because I'm terrible with sports analogies. I'm like round in home, and my husband's like That Doesn't make any sense. You're rounding third be cause you want to go home. Okay, so we're about to finish up, and
[lisa]:right, right.
[jess]:uh, any kind of final final
[lisa]:sure.
[jess]:thoughts on on today's topic of just where our beliefs come from, and kind of take it away.
[lisa]:Um, you know, I was just thinking
[jess]:please.
[lisa]:of just sort of a task if people are kind of like sticking with us and want to do a little bit of the work and this is something that I do in therapy with people. but you know, Um, develop a take a journal if you're up for it, or just Pe paper in general, but write down what your belief system is about yourself. You know, what are the things that you believe about yourself? the good, the bad, the ugly. Ah, all of it, and do your best to just be mindful of not judging yourself for the things that are gonna come out, and what you do with that list once you've really created it, And sometimes it's not something you do in ones sitting some time. It's something that you do over the course of a week or two, because as you start to become more self aware, you start to catch yourself in those beliefs. Um, and so you can continuously add to this list. But once you feel like it's complete, sit with it. look with it. look at it one by one. say it out loud and recognize. Does this really truly resonate with you? Does this make you feel good? Does this make you feel empowered, or does this make you feel like shit? Because if it makes you feel bad, then this is maybe one of those beliefs that we need to learn to let go of, And then maybe we come up with a belief that's more an alignment with who you are. Does that make sense?
[jess]:Yeah, do you want to give an example of one of your beliefs that you would write down?
[lisa]:Oh, oh, Jesus,
[jess]:Do you want to go first Because I have one
[lisa]:yeah, I mean God, there's some. There's a lot. Um, but if you have one, go ahead, I mean, I've already thought about these. Just for like the topic
[jess]:that I have to
[lisa]:that we're talking, but whatever's come to your head, go for it.
[jess]:be thinner and more fit in order to achieve the level of success and just overa life joy that I want. Now that is when Ive been actually really dissecting for a really long time, and we talk all
[lisa]:Yeah, yeah,
[jess]:about this and doesn't plague me as much. but I can almost tell you that, I
[lisa]:yes,
[jess]:can almost guarantee that a lot of people listening to this are dealing with a lot of body woes and hang ups.
[lisa]:yes, yes, well, okay, well, you're just bringing up for me. one of my my belief systems is that I'm not an attractive person given the body that I show up in, So I've through my life because I'm a really thin person. I'm incredibly thin. I have. I. I, uh, I was a teeny tiny baby when I was born and I've just always stayed small, but I grew up in an Italian family and I am not built or shape like anyone in my family. And so everyone thought there was something wrong with me And there was a period of time that my family thought I was anorexic and we're always trying to bulk me up. They'd made. Do you? I don't know if you're like too young for like knowing what ovolteine is, but like
[jess]:Yeah, hello Christmas story, drink, Oovine,
[lisa]:Yeah, Okay, so my P. my family would make me drink. Uh, it's really more. my grandmother. like my grandmother. ultimately was like the driving forces of trying to change the shape of my body. Uh, but she would make me drink ovalteine, and these shakes
[jess]:awesome,
[lisa]:and insure trying to like get me to gain weight. But um and it never worked and I ate plenty. It's just
[jess]:hick, it again.
[lisa]:this is just. But because of that I internalized out here comes my cat, internalizeed these beliefs about myself that I was not attractive. I wasn't attractive to boys. I didn't have these curves. I mean, that comes from personal like experiences in my family. But even just these ideas or concepts of beauty in uh so, and social media. So me, excepting myself as an attract a person that would be attractive has been this belief that I' I've been trying to deconstruct over time.
[jess]:Mm, Well and I, I. One of the things I have told myself is Um, if I don't gain or I, excuse me if I don't lose a pound. If I don't change my body shape from now until the day that I die, I will be mostly okay with that now. However, that was not always the case. That was so. um, uh, Yes, we will talk all
[lisa]:Yeah, yeah,
[jess]:about that, I guess uh. The, the closing comment that I would like to make on beliefs is that I believe I believe that a belief is just a statement of our reality that we believe is the truth, a state, a statement of our, a statement of reality that we believe is the truth,
[lisa]:yeah, yeah, yeah, a stateway, a statement of reality.
[jess]:And there's a lot to dissect with that one and I, I think it
[lisa]:Yes,
[jess]:it'll be a good place to end today, In a great place to pick up. Pick up
[lisa]:yeah,
[jess]:on the next episode So everybody listening. We are beyond grateful that you are here today. We're so proud of you for showing up and for doing the work and looking within yourself to consciously unbecome those beliefs that no longer serve you. We can't wait to talk to you again. Talk soon. bye.
[lisa]:thank you by.
